Welcome And Visual Descriptions

Chantal 0:32

Welcome to the Sunflower Conversations. I am your host and my name is Chantal. Joining me today is Alex Manners. But before I do the full intro, I'm going to give a visual description of myself and I'm going to invite Alex to do the same. So the visual description is for anybody who has sight loss. And yeah, just because we're recording this as an audio, but we also have video as well. So to give you an idea of what we look like. So I am a woman, I am middle-aged, I've got brown skin, and I've got long brown curly hair, and I wear wearing clear framed glasses, and I have a sunflower, proud to support the sunflower lanyard on. Alex, welcome. Would you be able to just give a visual description of yourself, please?

Alex 1:17

Yes, thank you for having me. So I'm Alex Manners, I'm a 29-year-old man. I have light brown hair and I'm wearing an orange jumper and orange framed glasses, and I have a green sunflower lanyard on.

What Autism Means To Alex

Chantal 1:30

Thanks, Alex. So Alex is autistic and is also an autism and neurodiversity speaker, presenter and author. Alex delivers motivational and educational talks about autism across the UK and has written and published his own book and appeared on Channel 4's Undatables. So I have a copy of Alex's book with me. It has a lovely photograph of him on the front. So we'll no doubt have an opportunity to find out a little bit more about the book as we journey through our conversation today. So thanks so much, Alex, for your time. It's very much appreciated.

Alex 2:06

Thank you.

Chantal 2:07

So can you explain in your own words what autism is and what this means for you personally?

Alex 2:13

Yes, of course. So autism is a hidden disability that means that we think, view what the world and see the world and communicate differently to other people. Everyone with autism is completely different, but there are a lot of common traits that many autistic individuals may have. And these include things such as a love of routine, taking things literally, differences with language and communication, highly focused interests, high levels of stress, and maybe even sensory challenges. For me, I've always looked upon my diagnosis as something positive, because right from when I was first diagnosed, my dad told me that it was a positive thing that gave me special powers. So although there have been a lot of challenges that even today I still have to face, there are also lots of positives of that diagnosis that I like to call my autism superpowers. And because it's classed as a hidden disability, I would say that I am disabled, even though I don't always feel disabled. I'm always I have a very black and white way of thinking. So that's how I would normally describe my autism.

Asperger’s Term And Why It Changed

Chantal 3:14

Yeah, okay, thank you. And on your book, on the front cover of your book, the title is called That's Not Right, My Life Living with Asperges. So would you mind explaining Asperges for our audience? Because I know that language and names and terms of diagnosis is continuously evolving. So for you, in from your perspective, your life living with Asperges, number one, what is Asperges? And can you maybe explain why that term isn't used in new diagnosis?

Alex 3:46

So when I was 10 years old, I was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome, which is a form of autism on the autism spectrum. And they don't use the term Asperger syndrome to diagnose people with anymore. Um they now just use ASD or autism threat disorder. And the reason is that the guy who first coined the term Hans Asperger um back in I think 1944 or the 1940s, he's now thought to have been a Nazi, which is why they don't use the term anymore. But I still like to use the term because I feel that when I use Aspergers, people understand me and my traits better than if I just say autism or ASD or autism spectrum disorder. So a lot of people who were diagnosed with Asperges, even though it's not a term that's medically diagnosed anymore, is still a term that they like to use, which is why I still like to use it.

Special Interests That Bring Calm

Chantal 4:36

And it is very much just that that you said within the community, everybody is an individual, and everybody has the right to describe them and their condition as they they want to and to but feel comfortable with, right? Um, so thank you for that. You said in when you were explaining sort of broadly what some of the traits are for an autistic individual, and you mentioned about having you know specific interests and hobbies. Can you tell us a little bit more about yours?

Alex 5:08

So autistic individuals sometimes have what are known as special interests, which are basically just subjects that they're obsessed with or know absolutely everything about. And sometimes these subjects can be very common subjects, sometimes they can be very, very niche or very, very unusual. So I actually have two special interests. My biggest one by far is football. Um, it literally dominates my every thought. I mean, I've been to watch a match at all 92 English football league grounds. I can name all of the grounds in the top five tiers of English football, so all the names and capacities. I, you know, I've got around 200 football shirts, 500 football badges, and football has also given me a way or has been a way for me to cope with a lot of the challenges that I've had to face. So it's been a great way for me to, you know, cope with some of the challenges I faced in school, and even today, it helps me a lot. Another interest, really not as big as football, but a big interest of mine is children's television. Okay. Um, I think because my granddad always had brightly coloured cars and more brightly coloured clothes, that always entices me to brightly coloured things. But also children's TV, as well as being very bright, you know, the characters are easy to understand, they don't use any ambiguous sayings or phrases. You can always tell how they are feeling. So the language used in those programs, I would say, is more autism-friendly um and easier for us to understand. So those are my two two biggest interests. But as I mentioned, people can have slightly unusual interests. Um, and I'll just give you exact an example of one of my friends from school who was and still is absolutely obsessed with anything to do with bins, skips, and rubbish.

Literal Language And Misunderstandings

Chantal 6:39

Yeah. It's interesting, it's so, it's so fascinating actually. And I was thinking about again when you the beginning, the overview about seeing things in black and white, and so language is so important, it must be so difficult for you because, especially in the English language, there's so much kind of I don't even know how to explain it, but like flex throw away humour, sarcasm. Sarcasm is actually probably one of the things that is notable about the English culture, and that must be very perplexing for you.

Alex 7:13

It language is a very difficult thing for me. I mean, even now, you know, if you look at like idioms and phrases, even ones that I've heard on multiple occasions, they still confuse me because initially I'll still think of like the literal meaning. So, like when I play golf with my granddad, one of the common things that golfers say is if you hit a bad shot, they'll say, You didn't hit that. And I look at my granddad when he says that to me, and I'm like, Well, how did the ball travel down the hall that down the fairway then? Like, how did it go down there? If I didn't hit it, you just saw me hit it. And I know what he means, but that's it still confuses me no matter how many times he says it. And sometimes when people are like asking me a question, um, I know some of my family members, if I'm telling them where I'm going, they'll just look at me and they'll go, where? No, that sorry, uh, they'll go, what uh what time? What time you leaving? And I sit there thinking, do you mean what time am I leaving the house? What time am I leaving my friend's house when I meet them? Or what time have I got to be there at the place I'm going? And then just say, like, what time? Or what time are you leaving? And I find that really confusing because it doesn't make sense. And sometimes just changing like one word in a sentence can alter our whole understanding of a question or what someone has said.

Chantal 8:24

Yes, so there must have been so many occasions where you've got totally the wrong end of the stick. Do you understand what that means? I've just done it, I've just done it myself, haven't I? Oh gosh. So uh there must be so many occasions where you have not understood the intention behind what somebody has said to you.

Alex 8:44

Um, I mean, I always use this example of when my uncle took me to visit my grandma in hospital, and he said to me, Is she in Solihull where we live? And I said, Yes. He came to pick me up uh about three days later, and we were driving past Solihull Hospital, and he goes, Where shall we park? And I said, Oh, we don't want to park in there, she's not in that hospital. And he was like, But you told me she was in Solihull. I said, Yeah, she is in Solihull, but she's in the a different hospital further down the road. Now, my uncle couldn't understand how I didn't understand that he'd meant Solihull Hospital. Yes, and because he'd missed out the word hospital, I thought he meant the area of Solihull rather than the hospital. And I mean it was lucky that this other hospital was literally just two miles down the same road. But I mean, if he'd have said something like Manchester or Birmingham, we could have been the right, the wrong side of it. Oh my gosh.

Sunflower Support And Signposting

Chantal 9:26

Yeah, yeah. Wow, yeah. It's but that that's why these podcasts are so useful, I think, to give a space to everybody, individuals talk about their own specific symptoms or just personality traits, so that neurotypical individuals can think a bit more carefully about you know communication because everything we do is either it's either written communication or it's verbal, and trying to make sure that it's simple and plain language and not using silly phrases like the wrong end of the stick, which is what I just did, but you know, just to make it make life more accessible. You are listening to the Sunflower Conversations with Chantal. To learn more about the sunflower, visit our website. Details are in the show notes. So you mentioned about how football is one of your passions and that it really helps you. So I know you have quite a unique use of the football programs. Would you share with us what that is?

Football Programmes As Anxiety Relief

Alex 10:32

Yeah, so I first went to my first ever football match, I think when I was around 10 years old and I was in primary school, and my uncle bought me a football program, and I absolutely loved reading it. And from that moment forward, wherever I go, I always take a football program with me. Um, because whenever I'm feeling stressed or anxious, I can always get my football program out of my bag, and it always takes me to a happier place, always makes my anxiety levels drop. So that's what football programs have done for me. I mean, I just dread to think how many I've got. I mean, I've got a whole bookshelf that reaches the top of the wall just full of programs. So I must I mean, I've got one from practically nearly every match I've been to.

Chantal 11:08

When did you start? When did you start? Did you say that? Realizing that that was your thing and collecting them?

Alex 11:13

Uh from the very first match I went to, my uncle who took me, um, brought me bought me a program from that match. And I took it into school when I was stressed in primary school.

Chantal 11:23

Yeah.

Alex 11:24

Yeah. And I I remember that I found that I was reading it when I was stressed in the lessons. And then from then on, whenever I went to a match, I'd always buy a program and I was always taking them into school. And I found that when I was in school, when I was in a lesson, if I was feeling anxious, reading that football program always made me think of the happier times I've had at the matches and made me think of like the matches I might have had coming up the next weekend um or in a few weeks. So football programs always make me feel relaxed when I'm when I'm reading them. And it doesn't matter what program it is or what team it is, it could be a program I've read a hundred times, it would still make me feel less anxious.

Chantal 11:59

Yeah. And what about reading programs for games that you haven't been to? Have you ever had it been does anybody ever gift you programs because they know how much you love football?

Alex 12:08

Yeah, um, too many to be honest. I've actually had to turn down people's offer of programmes because I literally don't have any space for them. Um yeah, I had my grandma's friend uh lived in London and supported Charlton. So she would always send me programs when she went to Charlton matches, and then I had another friend up north in Yorkshire who used to send me all the like non-league programs that he had matches he'd been to. And it was like the highlight of like the week or the month receiving programs in the post. And even though they were matches I'd not been to, I still have got every program that they sent me.

Chantal 12:36

Oh, that's really nice. I mean, that the thing is I also receiving something in the post always feels really special, and they've gone out of their way to do that for you. So yeah, I can imagine it must have actually set off a lot of positive endorphins.

Alex 12:49

It it did. To be honest, it made me. I mean, I always wanted to go to all these rounds, but it made me want, even if I'd already been to some of these rounds, it made me want to go back to them so badly by reading their programmes.

Sensory Triggers And Daily Barriers

Chantal 13:00

What examples have you got? We've discussed communication and you might have some more examples, but of the barriers that you encounter due to the traits that you have from you know autistic spectrum disorder.

What Meltdowns Feel Like

Alex 13:14

Well, there are a lot of challenges I face as a result of my autism. A lot of these traits happen, a lot of the challenges I face were in school. But because autism is something that I'll have for the rest of my life, I still have a lot of those challenges today, even though now I'm 29. So one thing is that I have a lot of sensory difficulties. So the feel of like labels in the back of shirts and seams at the ends of socks literally drive me insane. So I can't physically wear a shirt with a label in the back and with seams at the ends of socks, which to me feel like a thin piece of wire scratching at my toes. I often have to either wear my socks inside out or even sometimes get my grandma to unstitch the seams and sew them on back to front just so that I can wear them. Um, things like sounds, so ticking radiators and ticking clocks, drive me insane. If I'm in a room and I'm trying to work or go to sleep and I can hear one of those sounds, I just won't be able to concentrate or sleep. Meltdowns are a common trait that individuals on the spectrum and autistic individuals will will experience. And although I don't have them as often as I used to, and they don't last for as long, they still happen. And meltdowns can happen over very, very small things. A meltdown is basically just where we lose all control of our brains or our bodies and they can be verbal or physical, and it's just like an overwhelming response to situations where maybe we don't know of how else to express our feelings. So I still have meltdowns to this day. And I mean there are loads of other challenges that I face.

Chantal 14:38

Quickly ask you about the meltdown, because it's a it is an expression I think that lots of people will be common with now, but I don't know how how much people fully understand that the feeling, what what happens? It's it's not just having a temper tantrum, is it?

Alex 14:57

No, not not at all. I mean, for me, when I was younger and I used to have a meltdown, I would come home from school and like one little tiny thing, like it could be me, you know, spilling a bit of water on my sock or my sister saying something to me or hearing a ticking radiator, and I would instantly go bang straight into a meltdown where I would be like shouting. My meltdowns were never physical, so I never broke anything or hurt anyone. My meltdowns were always verbal, so it was always just me literally just shouting, screaming around the house, calling. I mean, I'm not embarrassed to say, but like calling my mum every bad name you could think of. And the reason was it wasn't that one thing at home that had caused the meltdown, but it would have been like a series of seven or eight things that have gone on throughout the school day or week that had mounted up inside me. And if you imagine like that last little piece of string just suddenly snapping, that's how it that's how it was for me. And because I'd been masking all day at school and I hadn't felt comfortable to express my feelings, it was only when I was around my parents and in a safe, the safe environment of my home that I felt truly able to basically unmask and and have these meltdowns.

Chantal 15:58

And then how would you feel afterwards once so would you for you is it better to be just everybody just sort of leave you alone and give you a wide birth? Uh or did you want to be soothed or spoken to? How did you sort of navigate at how how do you navigate out out of them? And how do you feel immediately afterwards, physically and mentally?

Alex 16:22

I mean, when I was younger and I had these meltdowns at home, I almost felt like every time I had a meltdown, I would have to because I'd have this meltdown over what the one thing that had happened at home, but because of the challenges I'd had in school, and then as I was sort of on that stage where I was calming down and coming out of that meltdown, my sisters, because I have two younger sisters, one of them would always be able to say something to me that would make my stress go like literally, it was the term skyrocket.

Chantal 16:47

Yeah.

Alex 16:48

Um and I would probably be even more stressed about what my sisters had said, sisters had said than the initial meltdown or the thing I had had a meltdown about in the first place. But then once they had both sort of finished and I completely recovered from those meltdowns, I would just be feeling depressed. Just literally, I would sit in my room crying, feeling depressed. And the reason I was feeling depressed is because I was so low on energy, and also because I was just so almost ashamed of what I had said to my mum during those meltdowns and how hard it was for her. I was very lucky that my mum never blamed me for anything I said to her because she knew that I didn't mean what I said, um, and that I'd always say sorry afterwards, and that it was the challenges I faced, like in school or elsewhere, that were caught for the main reasons. But yeah, after um after the meltdowns finished, I was just depressed about what I'd said to my mum.

Chantal 17:34

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's that's a heavy burden for a child or young person or adult, isn't it? Because you know the people that love you the most. And if this was such a frequent occurrence, particularly when you were at school because you were having a difficult time, the the the roundabout in your head of these uh the cycle of a difficult day at school, coming home, having to let go and have a meltdown, then upsetting, not upsetting your mum, but feeling you'd upset your mum, having a difficult relationship with your sisters. I mean, that's just a continual there's a film called Groundhog Day where you're stuck in this loop where every every morning is the same. I don't know if you've seen it, but uh there was an expression, it's like groundhog day, because it's the same every day. It must be really tough.

Alex 18:21

Yeah, it was very difficult. I mean, I always say that I was lucky because when you have a meltdown, you're you can't think straight. Like for me anyway, I couldn't think straight, I couldn't process anything. What people were telling me just wasn't going into my brain. But then you would think that because my brain just couldn't think properly, if I wanted to hit something, I'd hit something, or if I wanted to break something, I'd break it, which I know unfortunately some individuals with autism do, because meltdowns affect people differently. But I still had that somehow in my brain, I still had that thinking of if I break something, the feeling of depression is going to be worse afterwards because I know I've just broken something. So even though I was in this meltdown where I couldn't control what I was saying, I could control what I was doing to the point where I wouldn't, I never ever broke anything or hurt anyone during a meltdown.

Chantal 19:03

Yeah.

Alex 19:03

Which I feel very, very lucky that I was able to have.

Chantal 19:06

Yeah.

Alex 19:07

Even at least that little bit of control.

Chantal 19:09

Yeah. So there's a there there is an element of rationality in there when everything else is spiral, spiraled out of control. It's as if I needed to have that meltdown.

Routine Change And Decision Stress

Alex 19:18

I couldn't really control it, but there was like a little voice in my head saying, Don't break anything, don't hurt anyone, because you'll feel worse afterwards. Knowing how bad I would feel, or knowing how bad I felt after a meltdown by just saying things, the thought of then breaking something, the feeling after having broken something or hurt someone would probably have made actually breaking something just unbearbearable to even think of.

Chantal 19:41

You were listening to the Sunflower Conversations. Remember to hit subscribe. And um, sorry, I interrupted you to sort of go a bit deeper in in about meltdowns, but you were going to say about some of the other challenges that you have uh experienced or face.

Alex 19:58

Yeah, I mean there's there's loads of challenges that I face, and I'll probably come out of this meeting thing uh this interview thinking, oh, I've missed some like challenges that I face regularly, but things like routine is a really well was I'm much better at coping with uh changes, but routine was a big thing for me, and changes were very difficult. So when we used to go on holiday, we always used to go with a lot of different people in our family, and there'd always be sort of two different things happening every day. And to try and decide what I wanted to do, if I wanted to go with that percent of people or that set of people, was just I used to stand there for like 10 minutes wondering what to do. And once I'd made the decision, I was constantly worried about whether I'd made the right decision. So that was always a challenge. And if someone changed my plans at the last minute, or say four out of five things in my diary had been planned, that one little thing that hadn't been planned yet would still be going through my head until it had been completely planned and organized. Yeah, so that was another challenge that uh I mean, I still don't like change, I don't like things being rearranged at the last minute or not knowing things, but I'm I feel like I'm much better at coping with them and I'm able to be now much more spontaneous. So that was another big challenge that I've I've always had to face.

Chantal 21:06

Well, when we joined this recording, we had some technical difficulties, which turned out were my fault. Well, not my fault, the computer's fault. And I was wondering how you were feeling in response to this, you know, the audio wasn't working and how that was making you feel.

Alex 21:25

I mean, for me, I've been on so many meetings and interviews online that these things have happened before, so I I guess I'm just used to them. So thankfully, I was absolutely fine. And I I always look like a big chunk in my diary anyway. So if meetings or things do overrun, that's absolutely fine. So I never sort of have I never try and organise back-to-back meetings or anything like that. So thankfully, I think I'd have been worse when I was younger, but now I'm I'm fine with things like that going going wrong.

Chantal 21:50

And and also because you're you're in control now, aren't you? Because you're a you're an adult, so you've you know that you've built in time for any problems so that it's not going to interfere with your next meeting or your next call. But I guess when you were younger and on a school timetable, you have no control over that, or if your parents are making the decisions like we're going on holiday or whatever. When we're when we're children, we're not in control, we're not autonomous, are we? We are led by our caregivers or whether that's a school environment or our family.

Alex 22:22

Yeah, you're right. I mean I remember when I was in school, you know, like a PE lesson for example, I never had enough time to get changed afterwards. So I'd always be like the last one leaving the changing room. And then I'd be worried about being late to the next lesson because there was no there was no time for me to get changed and there was no sort of like gap in between the lesson. It was just straight from one lesson to the next. And I remember there was always one poster in in my secondary school on the wall and it always read you are the masters of your own destiny. I remember it clearly and I used to just want to rip it off the wall because I thought if I'm the masters of my own destiny then why am I forced to be here every day?

Chantal 22:52

Yeah.

Alex 22:53

It just didn't someone who's very black and white in the way they think that just didn't make sense to them. But yeah you're right now I have because I've got my own business and I work for myself I've got total control over my own time and my week. So if I don't want to plan something back to back like two meetings back to back I I I don't have to if I don't want to which is fantastic because it means that there are less things that could potentially go wrong and cause me to have a meltdown or to become stressed.

Chantal 23:19

And so do you think right you know running your running your own business is the ideal solution or scenario for you because you have total autonomy over what you do and and when you do it would you would you think you would find it challenging working for an employer have you worked for an employer I think so for me having my own business has meant because I have my own business now presenting talks all over the UK and doing a lot of autism training and talking about my experiences of growing up with autism.

Alex 23:47

And I think I've been able to meet so many amazing people visit so many wonderful places experience so many things that I think if I was working for another employer or someone else I just wouldn't have had wouldn't have been able to do so I feel very lucky that I'm in a position that A, I had family to support me when I was building up this business and also that I'm now in a position where I can make a living out of working for myself. Because I know for a lot of autistic people they would need that structure of you know going into an office every day knowing how much money they're taking home knowing where they're going to go every day. Whereas my weeks are completely different every week and when people say what what's your typical day like or what you do at work it's really hard for me to say because every week is like completely different.

Chantal 24:29

Yeah it sounds like a lot of fun.

Alex 24:31

It's very fun I I it wouldn't be for everyone but I absolutely love it.

Chantal 24:35

Good and then let's hear a little bit more about your book. So it's called That's Not Right My Life Living with Aspergers I think I know what inspired you to write it but can you please share with everybody what what inspired you to write it and what was the process like so when I was younger nothing was right and my parents remember that I'd always be saying that's not right about literally everything.

Writing That’s Not Right

Alex 24:56

So I remember one of the things I would say like there was a I wouldn't even call it a hill it was like a slight incline in the road up to where our school was and I used to I used to get so annoyed about this hill that I I actually once wrote to the prime minister to ban hills. I must have been very young. And even today like about two weeks ago I drove my friend down this exact road and they were like is this the hill in your book that you wrote to the prime minister about and I'm like yeah and they're like but where is it like this surely isn't a hill um so the fact that I was always saying that's not right that's not right about everything inspired the title for the book. And basically the reason I wrote the book um was I was writing an article I think for a an online website about my experiences in school and asked my dad if he got any information that I could include. And he took me into our garage and produced two toy boxes just jam-packed full of all the meetings he'd ever had with my teachers all the emails he'd had that he he'd collected and kept and I thought wow that's not going to fit in an article I want to share that with people because I'm very confident at sharing very personal things that most people wouldn't feel comfortable to share. And because I'm very confident at sharing them I want people to have a really true understanding of what living with autism what going to school with autism is actually like so that's what initially well those are what initially inspired the title for the book and then inspired me to actually write the book.

Chantal 26:12

What I've discovered getting into the book is that life at school was very difficult for you. Very very difficult and you're able to explain different the reasons why the scenarios the interactions with other school children the interactions with your teachers the caregivers some not very good and the difference it made when there was a caregiver who actually did understand and somebody who you felt that you could relate to and or or relay how you were feeling and then to understand and not to make judgment which is unfortunately what what we do as a society we judge people and what we expect them to do and be like is it's it's very different if you're autistic or you have asperges and you're I mean you talk about dance and there's a really nice well it's quite descriptive to me. Alex is explaining about he he didn't enjoy dance and part of the reason for that was that it would in the dance hall where you used to have it was that it was after lunch so there was bits on the floor. So I I don't know if you want to just talk about that a little bit and also I think it was there was something about in terms of not allowing you enough time to kind of understand the music to get into the rhythm before they'd be moving on to something else.

School Lessons That Felt Impossible

Alex 27:36

Yeah I think I always say that I mean my worst lessons at school I'd say in primary school was dance and one of my worst in secondary school was ceramics and they were both my worst lessons for the same reason for sensory difficulties. So in dance we used to do it in our bare feet in the dinner hall which is also the dance studio right after lunch and there'd still be bits of crumbs on the floor and it used to horrify me that I'd have to feel the sensation of these crumbs beneath my feet for me it was like you know stepping on like big slimy rocks. Yeah it was just it was just awful and they didn't give me any leeway they didn't allow me to wear my shoes or anything like that. They just well I felt that in my primary school a lot of teachers didn't really understand autism or how to support autistic individuals. So that lesson was just awful and even in some of the the dance lessons I remember we had to get very physical with other students and what I mean by this is we would have to do dance routines where like for instance loads of us would lie on the floor and then one person would like roll on top of everyone and I just absolutely hated it and the the other thing that used to really annoy me was that at my cousin's primary school they never even did dance. So the fact that we were doing it like literally every week it just really really bothered me because I love sport and physical activity but I would prefer to have been playing tennis golf football than dance where you have to get well touch all these problems beneath my feet and get so physical with other people.

Chantal 28:57

Yeah yeah and that just really goes to show what a lack of lack of awareness there was there. And I feel that with your business you are doing a lot of educational talks aren't you into about autism and what it's what it's like. So things have moved on a lot since you were at school would you agree or not?

Alex 29:15

Things have moved on a lot I still think there's a lot of understanding to be to be awareness to be raised because I still think a lot of people have preconceived ideas about what autism and Asperger's is and how it affects individuals. I mean yes it's moved on a lot that there's so much more understanding now than when I was say back in primary school but I think there's still a lot lot more awareness to be raised yeah and so it's keeping you keeping you busy. It's keeping me very busy and um yeah again you know what I share is sometimes what people maybe wouldn't want to share because it's so personal. And even like standing up in front of like a hundred people a lot of my friends that have a diagnosis like me they just wouldn't be able to stand up in front of like even like 20 people let alone a hundred and talk about their challenges or their diagnosis. And because I feel privileged to have that almost superpower autism from superpower I want to use that superpower to to educate and inspire as many individuals as I possibly can and with my talks that's basically talks I want to educate and inspire as many people as I can you know the reasons I I present these talks is to show people exactly what having autism is like show them that there are actually positives of having a diagnosis and not just challenges. And I also want different environments like school places schools and the workplace more accessible for autistic individuals thank you and I know that you were on the undatables what was that experience like so I was on two episodes of the undatables on series 10 and series 11. Now I didn't apply to go on the show it was actually a producer that saw an article I'd written about my autism online and she then got in touch with me and asked me if I'd like to go on the show. And because I'd watched the program so many times before with my parents and you know I would like to find a girlfriend I decided that yeah I'd love to go on the program. And I actually had a really positive ex well experience of being on the show. So I really enjoyed being on I think the weirdest thing for me I mean I was fine being filmed the weirdest thing for me was that the because I went on two different dates on the two show episodes the first date I went on was my first ever like proper date and it was weird thinking that literally everyone in the world could potentially watch my first ever date which is not an experience that probably well hardly anyone would have. Yeah yeah I mean that's really that's really exposing isn't it it can be I mean I didn't think too much about it until I filmed the episode where I was on the date and then I thought hang on a minute everyone in the world can watch this and it's my first ever proper date so yeah but I mean they they they filmed me in all the different locations that I would normally be in in my everyday life. So and my squash club at my house at the radio station I was presenting at you know in the local town centre. So they were filming me in lots of the locations that I was familiar with which was was really great. It made me feel more comfortable anyway I mean I was fine being filmed anyway but um yeah it just it just made it much more enjoyable and made me feel more comfortable being filmed in places I was familiar with.

Raising Autism Awareness Through Talks

Chantal 32:15

Yeah and so so they took that on board to so sort of make those accommodations so that you were at ease so that actually you had a good experience at the moment it was a good episode.

Alex 32:26

Yeah and I think they do that for most people where they will film them in their local area try and get like their background story. And I guess if they're in an environment that they're relaxed in then their answers to the questions that the camera crew are asking are going to be a lot more in depth because they're they're more relaxed so more more able to open up. So you actually had a date? I had two dates um on each of the two episodes I went on I didn't actually meet up with the girls that I went on a date with again and I think the main reason was they lived quite far away from me. So that was the main that was the main reason okay well thanks for sharing that uh it's very interesting.

Chantal 33:01

So you're wearing the hidden disability sunflower lanyard I'd just like to get your thoughts about it.

Channel 4 Undateables Behind Scenes

Alex 33:07

Well I think it's a brilliant tool because um I mean I explained a bit about if you want when I have used it before. So I have used it before when I've been in airports and what I find is brilliant is that staff I don't even need to tell them what I'm worried about. It's almost like they instinctively know and one of the things about an airport that I really worry about is where I need to go. And then when I find the queue of the or the queue I I think I need to be in I'm always then worried about if it's the right queue and if I'm gonna like miss my flight because I can't get to the security in time or whatever it might be. But they're always very very good at recognizing and either showing me where I need to go, asking me where is it you need to go or actually taking me to a fast track queue so I can get through security quicker and then not have that anxiety around missing my flight. So I think it's a brilliant tool to actually show people that there might be things you're struggling with without actually having to go into a lot of detail and explain to people because I know a lot of autistic individuals might not feel comfortable in explaining or might not even know how to explain what they're feeling.

Chantal 34:06

Yeah that's a really good point that you raise before we started recording we were talking about the new sunflower extra card where you can um fill in your information about yourself and the type of support you might need and then tap it uh on your on a phone device and then just show it show the screen to somebody so that you don't have to verbalize how you're um what you need in that moment saying that you thought that that would be really useful.

Alex 34:36

Yeah I really do because at the moment I do have like a little card that I put at the bottom of my lanyard that just literally says um I have an autism spectrum disorder that may make me vulnerable and then on the back it's just got three or four little facts about autism and then I think my dad's contact details. But to have a card like that that goes into a lot more information is is fantastic. It really is because it gives people more accurate and up to date information about that particular person.

Chantal 35:01

Yeah and the thing is you can because it's your your your profile you can go in and update it and change it as and when you want to so that's also really really helpful well I shall be sending you a voucher so you can get one.

Alex 35:13

Thank you.

Chantal 35:14

So as a disability inclusion tool what benefits do you think the sunflower offers to wearers with non-visible disabilities?

Alex 35:21

I think it highlights that actually some people do have hidden disabilities because you know I've often had in the past well people thinking well what's wrong you know what's wrong with him I can't see anything wrong with him so what's wrong? Whereas they don't see what's going on in our brains you know internally. So I think it just highlights that actually there are a lot of people out there that have disabilities that aren't visible and it also you know highlights well it helps people who may be like I'm very confident of telling people what my challenges are what I might need. A lot of autistic people won't be confident at telling people what they need. They might not even know exactly what they need. So to have something like this that people can recognize that they might need help with something and then put that help potentially in place without that person needing to really do anything or say anything is absolutely fantastic. And because it's such a recognizable thing I think so many people understand why people are wearing it. So yeah it's it's a fantastic tool to to have and so simple as well.

Chantal 36:16

Finally Alex would you be able to share one piece of advice that will lead to better inclusion for autistic individuals.

Using The Sunflower In Airports

Alex 36:25

Yeah I mean one piece of advice is very difficult to give because there's so much um just trying to think what the best piece of advice would be I'm just asking you to give one because I people can we'll put information about you in the show notes so that anyone can reach out to you because this is what you do for your living as well.

Chantal 36:43

So we want to you know signpost people towards you for uh any additional talks and advice etc but yeah we just like to finish on a golden one one golden nugget.

Alex 36:56

Yeah one thing I always say is if you're whoever whether you're a parent or an employer talk about autism in a positive light because so often we we just focus on the challenges of autism. And when I was growing up my dad always focused on the mum my dad and my mum always focus on the positives of autism and because at the time that's kind of the only things I knew about autism were an asperge is what they were telling me I kind of believed them. So it's it's it's really important that whoever you are if you're you've got a child with autism or if you're employing people with autism or you're writing about it, focus yes talk about the challenges but focus also on the positives of that diagnosis and the amazing things that autistic people can do because they really can be and can do amazing things and thinking a think in amazing ways and be fantastic human beings, fantastic employees, fantastic team players so I think focusing on the positives is really important. It's just perfect.

One Inclusion Tip And How To Find Alex

Chantal 37:49

That is um absolutely brilliant thank you so much and Alex has demonstrated throughout his life that in spite of some of the challenges which were pretty tough at school you know what he's doing is absolutely thriving and um yeah it's just reframing reframing it. So good for you Alex and thank you so much for your time on the Sunflower Conversations podcast. We'll add show notes but if you could just end by saying um how people could find you on the internet or social media.

Alex 38:21

So if you want to find me on the internet or on social media I'm on all the social medias so I've got a YouTube channel called the Apple OneWord. I'm on LinkedIn as Alex Manners TikTok Facebook Instagram and then I've got a website called www dot thealexmanners and if you'd like to buy my book it's that's not right my life living with aspergers and it's um you can either go on my website there's a link there or it's on Amazon.

Chantal 38:47

Perfect well thank you very much and thank you everyone for joining us if you enjoyed this podcast please share it leave a rating and review to help raise awareness of non visible disabilities and the hidden disability sunflower. You can also follow and subscribe to the Sunflower conversations podcast