Air Travel with Michael Connolly 

Speaker Key:
 

CB     Chantal Boyle

MC     Michael Connolly

Welcome to The Sunflower Conversations, where we explore the Hidden Disabilities Sunflower and its role in supporting people with hidden disabilities.

00:00:20

CB      

Welcome to the Sunflower Conversations. We are at Rise4Disability in Milton Keynes today, and I am joined by Michael Connolly. 

MC     

Morning.

CB      

I'm going to allow Michael to talk all about things, travel. It's one of his areas of expertise, and you have a wealth of experience in this field, as I understand it. Also, Michael was part of the founding group for the Hidden Disabilities Sunflowers. We will find out a bit more about Michael's journey with the Sunflower. Can we start off? Can you tell me what does being a disability advocate mean, and what’s that for, where you’re [overtalking]?

MC     

Try and change things. Try to remove some of the barriers, themselves. We primarily work with airlines, airports, ground handlers, the assistance service providers. But very much today, we're here to tell the public what assistance is there, how to get the right assistance, which is crucial, and talk about what the lanyard means to a passenger, as well as to the airport.

00:01:32

The airport staff are generally trained, but what the passenger expects, sometimes you'll travel from one airport and you'll get one version, then you’ll travel from another and you'll get a different one. So, it's trying to align passengers’ expectations of what's actually available for them.

CB      

You're working in conjunction with all of these airports, are you? Is there a central group that manage this accessibility and assistance for the airports? You've mentioned that some experience can be different for the passenger, depending on where they're travelling or going to.

MC     

Obviously, each airport’s responsible for its own accessibility. You've got the Civil Aviation Authority, which oversees and audits, if you like. Every year we see the airport rankings that are part of this milestone [?] and how the airport has done, in particular with regards to accessibility. The airports do their own, and where it differs sometimes is we have translation, interpretation of different things. 

CB      

Yes, of course.

MC     

Training varies from supplier to supplier. Some people maintain in-house training. Some people use external training. And the interpretation of what all of these documents across… Because, obviously, when we did Brexit, the Civil Aviation Authority of the UK took in all of the EU documentation to do with the aviation system it’s in, so we still work with the document, primarily, called the 1107. That states to the airports, this is what the passengers should be able to get. Go off and do them.

00:03:12

CB      

I guess this is one of the key questions, because I don't think that many people actually know what assistance is, what they can get, but also, briefly, talk about what are some of the barriers and issues. Because we know from the work that we do at Hidden Disabilities Sunflower, there's at least a thousand different conditions that fall under that banner of an invisible health condition. I am assuming that many people might think that assistance is just there for people who need a wheelchair. 

Well, in certain scenarios you might need a wheelchair, and in other scenarios you might not, depending upon what you're living with at that time, so what are some of the obstacles that passengers face?

MC     

There's way too many to list. Exactly, as you’ve just mentioned, the different types of non-physical conditions. When it comes to an airport, each person will have their own barriers. The benefit of the assistance is it should be run so the passenger is always asked, what do you need? How can we help you? Again, that varies from person to person. When the lanyard came in many years ago, the benefit of that was to help passengers to self-mobilise through the airport.

CB      

Right, yes.

00:04:32

MC     

That was the benefit of that one. With regards to assistance, when the staff say to you, what do you need? How can we help you today? It varies from, I just need assistance with checking in, and then I'll try to make my own way through. I need assistance for the whole journey. I need a wheelchair. Some airports will offer electric scooters for the airplane journey, but it always comes down to that individual passenger. 

We often say in our training, you can have ten people in a room. Each one will tell you they have exactly the same condition, and each one will need a different level of assistance through your airport. So, the only person that knows the assistance that that passenger needs is the passenger. We, as an airport or an airline or a provider, can then say, well, actually, this is available, which will benefit, or, what you are looking for isn’t available at this airport. So, realign the expectations. But we have to know what they are first.

CB      

Yes. I was having a look at, firstly, there are some videos on YouTube of the experiences of some disabled passengers. There's one video of a lady who is paralysed from the waist down, and she's talking about there's quite often a wheelchair that you can have on board that would fit down the aisle. So, that belongs to the airline or the airport? How does that work?

MC     

That’s the airport. Once you’re on board, it's actually called an onboard wheelchair, and it's what we call a narrow wheelchair that folds. That enables the aircrew to assist the passenger to and from the toilet, but the passenger should be able to make their own way across the seats or have somebody to help them. Unfortunately, although it’s recommended practice, because it's recommended practice, not every airline has it. 

00:06:21

There was an incident, I think it was about two years ago now, with one passenger in particular, and her partner filmed her dragging herself down the aisle. 

CB           

That's the video I saw.

MC     

Yes. That airline, it gets very technical then, because although she was travelling with a holiday company, that aircraft was leased, it was borrowed, so the holiday company, all of their aircraft, they say, we must have this equipment. Unfortunately, it wasn’t checked, or it was overlooked when they leased, or web-leased, as we call it, the other aircraft, and that didn’t have an old chair on. 

We always recommend that every aircraft should have a on board wheelchair, because we never know when it’s going to be needed. And the indignity that the passenger then faces of either not being able to go to the toilet, which, let's face it, it's basic human rights, or having to do what that lady did, and others. There was one two weeks ago about the same issue, so all airlines should have on board wheelchairs. They're not expensive, and they're relatively small. They fold up and they’re stored in the aircraft anyway.

CB      

Yes. What would happen…? I was having a look as well, of some tips and advice. Say, for example, my mum had a fall just recently, and I'm actually wanting to take her away. This was planned before she had the fall, and her ability is not brilliant anymore, so what would be my approach strategy for arriving at the airport. She needs some help, so I'm wondering whether or not I buy or rent a wheelchair for the duration of the holiday. I just don't know. Where would I start? What do you do? What would you recommend?

00:08:24

MC

Your first steps is always with your airline. We always tell them that you are the airline’s passenger and the airport’s customer. Some people say that's the wrong way round, but you're travelling with the airline. When you're in the airport, you’re a customer. Any type of assistance that anybody requires, always book with your airline. What happens is, you can do it when you book your tickets with many airlines. 

Some airlines require you to phone up after you've done the booking. Some airlines require you to fill in a form online, send that off, and then they call you back. But generally, when you're booking your ticket, there is a box that says, do you require assistance, or do you need assistance? Tick that. Fill in the information that is, I would always recommend, on your worst day, so we know that conditions vary. 

I, myself book assistance when I'm getting off a plane. I can't get off the plane after a flight. I can get on, but then I can't get off the plane, so I book assistance, and I say on the booking, I’ll need assistance to get off if it’s steps. I can't do the steps. Some days I'll be on a flight, and it's an average, and I don't need the assistance. But I don't know that until I've arrived at the airport, and then, unfortunately, the assistance is already there, at which point I could say, thank you, but it's an average, I'm fine. 

00:09:48

But other people will still need assistance off the aeroplane, so you start by booking with your airline. When you get to the airport, there should be an assistance desk or something somewhere, or you go to check in. Go to them. Tell them you’ve booked assistance. Give them your name. They'll put you on the system’s help. What they should do from there is confirm the level of assistance that you need.

At that point, they’ll ask you your name. They’ll confirm your flights, will give you your boarding line, if you've already checked in, or your passport. And then they will say to you, so how can we help? A lot of people find that annoying. I've filled all this form in online, I get here, and you've got it all in front of you, and you're asking me again. 

But because conditions change day to day, average, whatever, the airport’s actually doing the right thing and confirming what you need, because you might turn around and say, well, actually, when I filled in that form, I was all right. Today, I can't do anything. And the opposite, when I filled in the form, I needed everything. Today, I just need help with the bags.

CB      

Yes. One of the things that we'll talk about is the usefulness of the Sunflower, of course, that’s what we're going to talk about. But sometimes some of the comments that we receive is that an individual, or a child, an adult doesn't need to be in a wheelchair from the point of entry into the airport until getting on to the aeroplane. 

00:11:13

They just need some help with, like you say, maybe the bags or getting through security, which can be quite painful to be standing up for that amount of time in the queue. Or you've got other Sunflower wearers who are diabetic, and they've got particular medical items with them. Other people who wear it who’ve got stomas for bladder and bowel issues, so they might not need to be in a wheelchair. I think it's just understanding and breaking down that misconceptions. It's not just for wheelchair users.

MC     

No, not at all. In fact, many airports report that they use wheelchairs very, very often, primarily because the passenger can't do long distances, or the passenger can't walk, and they are either using their own chair or they transfer to an airport chair. But the level of assistance that a passenger can have can be anything to… The lanyard enables the passenger to self-mobilise, so you’ll register at the assistance desk still, so that they know that you're on site. 

You mentioned about stomas. We did a lot of work with colostomy care [?]. One of the good things, like a lanyard was, the passenger who doesn’t want assistance. What they want is, I might need a bit of help at this point or at that point, but I don't want to be [unclear]. I don't want to be taken hand-in-hand or pushed in a wheelchair, so I'll register with you now. I've got my lanyard, or pink badge, or whatever you're using. I’ll make my own way through. 

When I’ll meet a security, which is where most people with stomas are finding the issue with an airport, I can [inaudible] say, [unclear], and this is one. And then they're dealing with an individual instead of a community, so that maintains the dignity, maintains that privacy. We've had passengers that have had a lanyard on going through security. Their own families didn't know they had a stoma. They've spoken to within, and people said, well, why have you got that? I've got this, or they explain it, and they make things up for the families. They don't want to admit things to the children or to the parents. 

00:13:25

And they've got to security, and they have said, I'll have a private search, please. That's something else that many people don't know.

CB      

That's a really good one, actually, the private search. Tell me a little bit more about that.

MC     

Everybody is entitled to a private search. It doesn't matter what the condition is. You are allowed to ask for a private search. Many passengers, when they're going through the airport, especially those travelling with disabilities, they are under the impression that this is the place where I'm going to be searched. So, whatever condition I've gotten… 

Again, this is something that we found with colostomy in the UK, many of their service uses was getting to the airport and think, how do I get through this? I'm going to set something off. I'm going to trigger something. They empty all their pockets, they double check everything, and they still get triggered, because the system’s designed to have a random selector as well.

00:14:20

At that point, it's a very simple conversation... Well, beforehand, when you get to the queues, you'll see there's always an individual directive in the passengers, which lane to use. Say to them, I'm going to need a private search. You don't have to have a lanyard. You don't have to have assistance booked. If you notify security, they will plan that when you get to that gate… That used to be the archways. It's changing now, so it’s the scanners. When you get there, now you can say, well, I’ve spoken to that lady, or to that man. I need a private search. 

They will arrange it for me. They will ask you to step to the side for a moment, because they need to take you to a cubicle or to a room, but it's very simple, and everybody is allowed to have that.

CB      

That's really, really useful. One of the other comments that I've heard, and I don't know if you have the answer to this, the metal on the Hidden Disabilities Sunflower lanyard could trigger the security.

MC     

The [overtalking]?

CB      

Yes.

MC     

Every airport had the archway, as we used to call it, the gate. Those are changing now, changes in airport security across the whole of Europe. Those are gradually being phased out, and we're having more and more of the scans. When you're going through, the security will take you, whether you need to just remove it temporarily or not. So, they'll see, they'll know whether it's going to trigger that particular scanner, and if it does, then you just remove it for a short period of time, and as it goes through.

00:15:53 

One of the things, believe it or not, that we’ve found in security, that a lot of passengers have issues with, was not the scanner. It was actually, why are you taking my belongings? Will I get them back? So, we encourage security to say, if you just take the lanyard off, or your belongings, to put your bags in it. You’ll just get them back on the other side of the screen.

CB      

Yes. Maybe then, for Sunflower wearers who, the security process is overwhelming, etc., you have to go through that scanner. There's not a way around that, but actually maybe be a bit front-footed about it, and before you trigger the alarm, ask, shall I take this off? Because you want the person who is… I don't know if they're called a security officer.

MC     

Yes, it is.

CB      

The security personnel, to be aware that you do have an invisible disability, don't you, so that when they interact with you, they are a bit more mindful and understanding, and the effort…

MC     

If the airport have had the training that goes with the lanyard, not just supplied by the Hidden Disabilities’ team, or whatever they’re called, but all the training’s a bit more in depth. We cover them, because we train security staff as well, so we explain to check in, security, gate staff what to do, how to approach the passenger, how to communicate with the passenger. And most of all, for many passengers, it's just a case of, what was it? People, security’s very… We have to process, remember, try to get them moving through as quickly as possible, where time [unclear]. 

00:17:27

We say to the staff that sometimes that is what causes that bit of a delay, that bottleneck, because you’ll have one passenger who may have a lanyard, and they're unsure. Some airports bring the thing up, if I shout at you, I've got your attention, you’ll do as you’re told, because they were trained to do the same as police do. Whereas we now know that if I talk to you, ask you questions, pause, it gives you time to process the information that I've given to you and the information I'm looking for back.

Things with the lanyard, do I need to take this off? Yes or no. Place it in the tray, or, no, you’re fine. Carry on.

CB      

Yes. I guess, also, people might want to consider, you can get tee shirts with the Sunflower on. There are different ways of maybe wearing it just at that airport, so you don't have to remove it. We've got rubber wristbands, and different items that don't have metal on just for that bit when you're passing through the security, if you don't want to take your… Being without your Sunflower for any period of time.

MC     

One of those things we will be saying is, if you do use the wristbands, make sure you can see it, because people will have a wristband and then they'll have a jumper or a hoodie on, and you can't see the wristband. Make sure that, if you're going to use it, it's there. It's a good thing, but let the staff know that you have it.

CB      

You are listening to the Sunflower Conversations with Chantel. To learn more about the Sunflower, visit our website. Details are in the show notes. I'm pleased that we covered some of the different barriers and challenges that people travelling with a disability might encounter. Can you share some of your successes that you've seen and been a part of?

00:19:20

MC     

Well, there's lots. When the lanyard first launched at Gatwick, we were then attached to the company that helped to design everything else. It’s in every [unclear], but then we were tasked with, well, let's go to the other airports. It was almost, you're selling something that hasn't got a cost to it. So, we want the airports to take it on, and I read it yesterday, Shannon is one of the latest ones to sign up. Well done, Shannon. 

It's getting the airport to understand that this actually helps you as well as the passengers. The airport, if the lanyard scheme is managed properly, the purpose of the lanyard is to allow passengers to self-mobilise. That means that you're not utilising staff for that passenger, but that passenger, crucially, is maintaining their own dignity, all of the buzz words that we use. I'm able to go through an airport without help, whereas last time I needed help, because I've got a lanyard, and the staff understand what it is. 

If they don't understand what my condition is, which they won't, they would automatically ask different questions, pause to allow you to process what they asked. Probably one of the earliest examples of a great story for the lanyard. I had two young girls, they were seven and nine, and they were travelling through one of the UK airports. At the time I was the training compliance manager, and I was launching this lanyard all over the place.

00:20:55

We had organised visit days. So, you contact us. You tell us when you're trying to fly. You haven't booked the flights or anything else, but you're desperate to fly, and we'll bring you in to the airport. We'll arrange everything too. Where is it you’re flying from? Which airline? Because then that dictates where we’d start our visit. Where are you going to? So we know, roughly, which gate you're going to be out of now, and we would almost mimic the [unclear] and the [unclear]. 

I had a lady email me saying, I want to do one of your visits. I've got two young children. They’re foster children. They've never seen their parents. They have no idea of maternal or paternal family. All they have ever known is the foster care system. This lady had had them for, I think it was about three or four years, but they'd recently had contact from a grandmother in Cork. The grandmother, unfortunately, was very ill and she was unable to fly, but she wanted to see her grandchildren. 

The grandchildren had high anxiety and were terrified of the airport, not just for flying, but the airport environment itself, so we arranged a visit. We brought them in. Starts at nine o’clock. We'll meet you here, then I'll take you through the airport.  Ten to nine, I get a phone call, we're here at the airport. The girls won’t come in to the airport. Fair enough, I’ll come to you. I went there, met them outside and sat on a bench, and we were just having a conversation. They were visibly terrified of the airport.

CB

Yes, you could see it.

00:22:30

MC     

They didn't want to be in the airport at all. It was very, very visible. So, I start off, fair enough. I said, we'll just sit down and have a chat and tell you what's going to happen. Went through all of that, explained about the Sunflower lanyard, what it did, and then I’d sat on this bench for about three hours, talking to these two young girls. And then I said, do you fancy that hot chocolate? Who doesn’t like hot chocolate? 

I managed to get them indoors, sat at a table right next to the window, got the hot chocolates and everything else, then they get used to the sounds. Moved from there, to the next sounds, the next sounds, and before they even understood what was happening, we'd done the whole journey in an airport. We then explained again about the lanyard and everything else, and when you’re flying, get the lanyard, this will be the way. 

I then got an email from the mom saying that they’d been over, they’d flown to Cork, they’d met the grandparents, and they were absolutely ecstatic, over the moon. And it was about two years later, on that first flight, they'd actually used a lanyard, and they called it their shield of armour.

CB      

Oh, brilliant.

MC     

A couple of years later, I’m in the terminal, same airport, and I hear somebody shouted my name, turned around. It was nobody I recognised. I carry on walking. Calling me again. I turn around. These two little girls running up to me, giving me a big hug. It's the same two little girls in the airport then, flying on their own.

00:23:49

CB     

Oh, gosh. Really emotional.

MC     

And they were still using the lanyard, and they still called it their shield of armour.

CB      

That’s amazing. It’s transformational.

MC

All the noise, this helps. And I had an email from the foster mother a couple of months later to say that the schemes that we were building, the lanyards, the visits, the assistants, we are not just helping people to get on board a plane. We are changing people's lives. The same as [overtalking].

CB      

It's so much bigger. 

MC     

It’s huge. It's the effects that you have. These two little girls, for example, had never flown, were terrified of flying. Within a couple of years, and that saved [unclear] years, they’re off flying on their own. The schemes, the assistance, sitting there for three, four hours and having a hot chocolate, has helped them to find family they never knew they had. They've now got my cousins and everything else.

CB      

Well, you were changing that person's whole life outcome.

MC     

Everything. From that moment on, you've opened up a whole new world, and as big as the world is, when you start travelling, it's small.

00:24:59

CB      

It's the positive benefits of that time invested by you and who you were working for at the time, that were actually supported you to do that, as opposed to, why have you spent three hours? Where have you been? And then, obviously, from a commercial point of view, they've got repeat customers who will fly again and again and again. 

MC     

That's one of the crucial aspects that people forget when it comes to the airport. Airports, airlines, ground handlers, service providers, they forget one thing. You allow one person to fly, you're not allowing one person to fly. You enable that person to fly. You enable them and their families, because most people do not fly on their own. If I need the lanyard in order to help me, to give me that security, to get through an airport journey, then you've sold me a ticket. You’ve possibly sold my partner a ticket, and you've probably sold my children tickets. 

You've got a family that's then using your airline, going through your airport, buying the products. And we look at it, and we go, we have nought point something percent, what we call PRMs assisting travel. But when you look at who's travelling with them, that number grows. And airports at the moment are looking at non-aeronautical spending. How can we improve the money coming in through cafes, restaurants, bars, all that kind of thing. Enable people to fly, you enable families.

CB      

That's right, [unclear]. It’s the airport. 

MC     

That’s it.

00:26:32

CB      

At the last Rise4Disability, I was chatting to somebody. Since the implementation back in about 16, is when it got launched to the public, we've now introduced the iSupport range, which is the green on a white background. A lady came and spoke to me, and she was absolutely thrilled, and she took a couple of these lanyards, because she said her son felt a little bit, I guess, isolated in the sense of they were travelling as a family. 

He needed additional support, but because he was the only person wearing the lanyard, he felt a bit obvious, whereas she said, well, they could all wear a lanyard. So, they were more united, and it just felt so much more inclusive for them as a family, and they felt that they could outwardly display their support for him, and that for him, he would really benefit from that. So, I think that that's another really important element of the sunflower in Disabilities Sunflower, because we evolve responding to the Sunflower community and what they need.    

And the beauty of it, is that you can take it off when you don't need it. You don't have to have it tattooed on your forehead.

MC     

That’s it. It's there when you want it or when you need it. One of the other aspects is, if the airports are running the project as it was first initiated, the passenger who needs the assistance doesn’t need to wear the lanyard at all. A member of the family can wear it. Because we always said, we can't allow families of ten and 12, six and eight sometimes, to go through security as a group due to one lanyard, because the airlines, the security, it's just not possible. 

00:28:22

We always train the staff, you've got your passenger and one companion, and if it’s your children, it is recommended that you try not to split off the immediate family. By immediate families, you have four, possibly five a shift, but that's up to the airport, whether they would allow that. Anything more than that, or extended family, they can’t allow. Well, for that unit, if I'm going through and my son has autism, which he does. Josh has autism, Asperger's, dyspraxia, and epilepsy, I can waive a lanyard for him. 

Some passengers think I'm the one with the condition. I have to wear it, but they don't want to, exactly, as you’ve just said. I stand out more, or something. Give it to mum, give it to dad, to your brother or sister. Let them wear it for you. You still get the same assistance.

CB      

I think one of the other things too, just to let everybody know, is that most of the airports is over… Well, Shannon in Ireland is the most recent launch that we've had, and they’ve really put a lot of time and effort into it, which all of the airports do, to be fair. But there was over 240 [unclear] Euro members. Most of them, not all of them, so do check before you travel, do have Sunflower lanyards available at the airport for passengers, so check ahead. Always do everything ahead. 

Don't assume. Make sure that you have planned what you're doing, and when you're doing it, and how you're doing it. If you haven't been able to get one from our website, which you can, but if you can't for whatever reason, you can request them and see if they've got them available. It's always subject to stock and availability.

MC     

There’s a lot of supermarkets that have them now as well.

CB      

Yes.

00:30:12

MC     

They're available in supermarkets, so if you are planning to travel and you see it available at the supermarket, it's the same lanyard.

CB      

Yes.

MC     

If you look for them there, it does the same job. One thing I will say, which is very important for passengers, just because you're flying from an airport that understands it and runs the scheme, does not always mean the airport you're travelling to accepts the scheme. Some countries have said, we will not support the lanyard at all, for the primary reason that they believe against marking people. We tried to explain to them that it's purely voluntary. If you want to, you do. If you don't, don’t.

The good thing about those countries are, we trained most of the ground handlers and the providers in those countries. Although they don't support the lanyard, they insist that all of their staff are trained on what the lanyard is and what the passenger may need. So, they've had the same training as we would supplying to an airport that runs the lanyard scheme, but they just don't advertise it.

CB      

That's really interesting to hear that, because I have heard many comments about, oh, Sunflower wearers, we went through this airport and the experience was brilliant. And I know for a fact that they're not members of the Sunflower network, but this is obviously why.

00:31:38

MC     

Many airports still have to train. Again, they understand it’s important to the passenger, but their government or their organisations have said, no, we're not going to support it. But we understand the passenger has needs, and we will work towards the passenger, so they still have all of the training that we supply to an airport that would have the lanyard system.

CB      

That's brilliant. Then that’s a go from me.

MC     

Pretty much, yes.

CB      

Yes, that's excellent. If you want to find out which ones are actual members, you can get that from our website, hdsunflower.com. You were listening to the Sunflower conversations. Remember to hit subscribe. This has been so interesting, and it will be really valuable for so many people listening, because there is that fear factor of how am I going to do this journey on my own or with a loved one? 

I’ve just recently done a podcast with a lady who's got a functional neurological disorder and fibromyalgia, and she said that the Sunflower lanyard absolutely transformed her experience. She went from the UK to Amsterdam. Schiphol Airport was amazing. She went into museums, and in the museums, they allowed her to bring her companion as her carer. She just said that trip would have been just totally different without this visible sign. 

From you, yourself, when you think about when you were in those meetings back in, what was it, 2015, 2013, coming up with the concept and the idea that you'd be sitting here with a teddy bear and really [unclear] we have a podcast now as well.

00:33:26

MC     

It's exploded. It really has, but for the right reasons. During COVID, there was a lot of issues, but since COVID, people have started to understand what it's for. And the airports, the airlines, ground handlers, the passengers are now looking at it and going, actually, this is a tool that I can use, or this is a tool that the passenger needs or requires. 

I remember when we first launched it, at Argos of all places, and I'm walking past the shop thinking, yes. I had nothing to do with putting it into Argos, but because of the connection way back when he was one of them, this could work.

CB      

Yes, well it’s [unclear]. Can you just tell everyone how they can contact you, or what you do, or your organisation, if they want some further advice, guidance.

MC     

Yes. With regards to the lanyard, we are Skywise Solutions, and available app, skywisesolutions.com. We train airports, airlines, ground handlers, service providers, those people who actually help you on the plane, off the plane, through the airport. We train them on service provision, including the lifting, transferring of the passengers, and everything else. 

One of the reasons that we do it these days is, not for the airlines’ benefit or anything else, but for the passengers’ benefit, because, as you mentioned at the start, there are thousands of people who have no idea they can get help at an airport, and that means they don't travel. We do TV shows, we hand out leaflets and business cards and everything else. Contact us with your questions. You don't know how to book, ask us. You don't know what to book, ask us. What's available? What went right? What went wrong? Ask us. 

00:35:10

We work with many airports around Europe, and we communicate weekly, monthly sometimes with those airports, what's going well? What's going wrong? And there is a little community of, not competition, this is the beautiful thing about aviation. It's got away from, it's a competition, to, let's focus on the person in the seat, the passenger, the one who's going to fly with us. And then the airlines will go to the airports and say, what are you doing to help all of us? The airports go to the airlines and go, we want to do this. Will you support us? 

The face of accessible aviation is changing daily. Today we've got various equipment on our little stand as to passengers who need to be transferred, what equipment is available at an airport, how do they use it? If that's not available, what are the alternatives? We just bounce around doing that. [Unclear] bounce around. It’s chaotic.

CB      

You do what you do. Fly around maybe, doing that. Well, Michael, thank you so much for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure.

MC     

Same. Thank you very much for the opportunity. 

CB      

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00:36:46

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