Cerebral Palsy with Eva Abley

Eva Abley joined Paul and Chantal at Disability Expo to share her life experience of living with cerebral palsy.

Eva is 15 years old and a 2022 Britain’s Got Talent finalist who endeared the country when she took to the stage to entertain, amuse and delight with her quick-witted and observant humour and comedy routines.

Close to Eva's heart is her work as a disability activist, and in this conversation, we talk about her lived experience of cerebral palsy, mental health, social exclusion and her activisit work.

This is a live recording.

If you liked this podcast, please leave a review, subscribe and share.

If you are experiencing any issues discussed in this podcast please contact your healthcare practitioner.

Watch Eva's BBC programme - My Life Eva's Having a Ball

Hosted by Chantal Boyle and Paul White, Hidden Disabilities Sunflower.

Want to share your story? email conversations@hdsunflower.com

Music by "The Emerald Ruby" Emerald Ruby Bandcamp and Emerald Ruby website

Speaker Key:

VO Voiceover

CB Chantal Boyle

PW Paul White

EA Eva Abley

00:00:00

Welcome to The Sunflower Conversations, where we explore the Hidden Disability Sunflower and its role in supporting people with hidden disabilities.

Welcome to The Sunflower Conversations. We are at ExCeL London. Again, this is our second day here, and we are at Disability Expo. So, it’s very exciting to be doing a live recording, and Disability Expo is the UK’s leading person-focused event for people with lived experience of disability. As this is a live recording, anything can happen. This is showbiz. So, I want to apologise for being a few minutes, late, but that’s just the risk of the trade.

I’m Chantal, and I’m the host of The Sunflower Conversations podcast. And joining me, next to me to my right is Paul White, who’s the CEO of Hidden Disability Flower. Give everybody a hello.

Hello.

00:01:21

And we’re going to be joined, our guest today is Eva Abley, a 2022 Britain’s Got Talent finalist, which is extremely exciting. Eva endeared the country when she took to the stage at Britain’s Got Talent to entertain, amuse, and delight audiences with her quick-witted and observant humour. So, we’re really looking forward to chatting with Eva on the podcast today. First of all, I’m going to have a little chat with Paul. Paul, thank you for coming and joining me. It’s really nice to have a copilot and a cohost. We have hosted a podcast together before, haven’t we?

And I think it was successful, so I hope this one is equally successful.

Things can only get better, as the song says. So, what’s your experience at Disability Expo been like so far?

Yes, I’ve really enjoyed it. As you said, it’s our second day. Seeing everybody wearing Sunflower lanyards and Sunflower supporting lanyards is incredible. It’s incredible to see the support the Sunflower continues to have. And the conversations that I’ve had with people around the Sunflower have all been positive.

There’s been some challenging questions that we’ve been asked about how we provide the Sunflower, what services we provide, how businesses support their disabled colleagues and disabled customers, but all of those questions have been well received and hopefully well answered by myself and our team at the Sunflower. So, I’ve really enjoyed myself. I think Disability Expo as an event is something that’s going to only grow and grow. I think the popularity will just continue, and for me, personally, it’s been a wonderful experience.

00:03:06

Good. Yes, my experience of Disability Expo, it’s been great. This is day two. So, yesterday we had a live podcast, our first one, with a wonderful guest called Solène. And what you might notice, and I apologise for any background noise, we’ve got basketball going on in the corner, there’s a gaming zone behind us, there’s a main stage which Eva has performed on twice so far now.

Yes, twice.

There’s lots going on. There’s something for everybody. There’s fashion, as well. This morning, we went to listen to Solène who did some… I think it’s called live… No. Word, like the spoken word, that’s it. The spoken word. So, it was a poem, but it was through performance, and Solène has BPD, which is borderline personality disorder, and ADHD, and she chose to do her spoken word performance about that.

And she really went into where you can go to with mental health, and how it’s impacted her, and the stigma that is attached to that, and I was in floods of tears. It was so powerful. And then she took us out of the darkness of it into the light, and all the things that she’s been able to achieve, and the positive elements that comes with her disability, and the things that she’s achieved, and the things that she just goes for.

00:04:47

And then we had the time to sit with how we felt, and our emotions, and talk about it. And I had tears streaming down my face, but it was really powerful and it was really good.

But to be fair, you do cry at the most smallest thing. Even the most smallest TikTok about a cat, you’ll be in floods of tears. So, I don’t think that’s a huge barometer to it, but I take your point.

Well, that might be true, but anyway, this was fantastic. So, I want to do a formal welcome to Eva. This is the first time that I have spoken, we have spoken, to a celebrity.

Absolutely, yes, very excited.

I’m not a celebrity.

You are in our eyes.

You are in our eyes, Eva.

Eva’s a 15-year-old student and a comedian, and also a disability activist, I think is right to say. Eva has cerebral palsy and joins us to talk about her life experiences so far, which have been, from what I can gather, a lot.

00:05:46

Yes, there is a lot.

So, let’s start off with, it’s the question I think probably anybody would want to know. What is it like to be a contestant on the UK’s biggest family entertainment show? What was that like for you?

It’s a life-changing event, one you may never do again, and every second of it I really enjoyed.

And how long was that process when you applied to go on it?

So, I didn’t actually apply to go on it. I posted a video on my Instagram of me doing a joke. Britain’s Got Talent saw the video and the asked me to come in on their show.

They invited you?

Yes.

So, you didn’t have to get in the queue? I always see the queue of people queueing to go on, and there’s always a random person you think, that’s never going to work, and then all of a sudden it does. So, you didn’t have to do that process?

No, there was no queue for me.

00:06:52

Good.

You were a VIP from the beginning. So, when did you realise that you had a talent for comedy?

I didn’t really. It’s more, I noticed people started laughing at the jokes I would tell, but I never thought about it being as big as it has got. And it’s taken me down so many different paths, good and bad.

So, did anybody inspire you to become a comedian? Was there any inspiration through comedians that you’ve seen before?

I love the Lost Voice Guy. We’re really good friends now. Rosie Jones.

Yes, Lost Voice Guy, he’s great.

We saw Rosie Jones. I didn’t actually get to speak to her, but she was at Parallel Windsor, which is a disability-inclusive event. It’s all about participation, and they have different runs.

Their mantra is, start together, end whenever. So, it’s a really inclusive sporting event that everybody can do, and there was a run from… The distances were from 100m up to 10km. Something that everybody could be involved with.

Yes, and you can run, you can be pushed, you can walk, you can be carried. So, it’s all inclusive. And we had the Sunflower Super Sensory 1K race, which was lovely, and we had tinsel, so it was very sensory, visual for participants, and big sunflowers floating around.

00:08:31

And there was a carwash, so you went through the carwash and got squirted with water. That was quite popular.

Oh, lovely. That sounds great.

So, you didn’t realise you have a talent, but you were making people laugh.

Yes.

So, Eva, the one question that I want. When Chantal said to me I was going to come on a podcast with you, I had one question that I wanted to ask you. It might be quite deep, but could you tell me a little bit about the role of comedy in society, and how it can help people cope with challenging subjects such as disability?

I think what’s important is to know you’re not laughing at the disability, you’re laughing with me. And I think making things I struggle with being disabled into a joke makes people accept it and understand it more.

And also, they probably have never even considered the things that you raise in your comedy are actually important highlights, but many people who aren’t disabled would not have even thought to put themselves in your shoes. So, it’s a way of educating, isn’t it?

Yes, because obviously it’s comedy, people want to watch it, so they’re not being forced to listen about disabilities, but it’s an added extra that you’re educating people.

00:10:04

Yes. I just actually was on… Well, it wasn’t on, sorry. I did host a panel yesterday. But this morning I sat and listened to a panel, and it was about disability representation in the media, and it was talking about, how can we get representation, rather than a token person who has a disability? How can we just make this the norm, and how can we do this? And I think with the platform that you’ve created for yourself, it’s perfect.

Yes, I think obviously that millions of people online with disabilities doing social media, that they do need to be recognised even more than we already are.

Yes, I completely agree.

You are listening to The Sunflower Conversations with Chantal. To learn more about the Sunflower, visit our website. Details are in the show notes.

We were wondering, because Paul and I have watched your videos, and we noticed that your dad gets a little bit of stick.

I noticed your mum, because she had ginger hair. So, a ginger mum and a bald dad, that was a joke. So, I definitely noticed your mum at first.

So, within your family, who else is the comedian? Who do you bounce off?

Definitely my brothers, even though they are really annoying. One of those things, being annoying, but I can’t help laughing at them, because they’re just so funny with it.

00:11:51

How old are your brothers?

So, Freddie’s six, Lucas is ten, and Matthew’s 15.

Okay, so you’ve got a broad spread of ages that you can bounce off of.

And they’re all boys?

All boys, yes.

Oh okay, so you know your place within that household, right?

Or they know their place, I should imagine.

Or they know their place more, right.

Oh no, the little one is definitely the boss.

Oh, really?

I don’t get a say in anything.

Mum’s nodding. So, you’ve got cerebral palsy. Can you tell us, how does it affect you?

00:12:24

So, I’ve got wobbly arms, tremors, wobbly legs. My voice is affected. And yes, there’s lots of different things, like you can’t see also, that affects me with cerebral palsy.

And is it true to say that cerebral palsy affects everybody differently?

It’s a spectrum. There’s mild cerebral palsy, and there’s obviously hard cerebral palsy. Some people have it in one arm, one leg. I have it in all four limbs.

And one of your comedy routines, you said about the Botox and your mum pinching your Botox. Can you tell me, from a medical point of view, why do you have Botox, and how often do you have that?

So, I have them twice a year, and I’ve got a bladder issue. So, just like my arm, my hands shake, my bladder shakes. So, that means I always need the toilet. The Botox helps to relax my bladder more.

And can you really feel that tapering off towards the end of the six months?

Oh, I know exactly when I need it again.

And is it patient-led? Can you make the call and say, it’s coming off, I need to have it now? Or is it very strict you can only have two a year?

No. So, you call them, and then you’re on a waiting list, which is normally about six weeks, or sometimes they might call you and say, we’ve got a cancellation for tomorrow, do you want to come in? So, it’s very good.

00:14:29

That’s good, because when you need it, you need it.

Yes, because I’ve got to go under anaesthetic for it.

Is there a recovery, recuperation, then, after you’ve had that? Like, when you’ve had it and you’ve come out of your anaesthetic, are you good to go immediately, or does it take a little while? Is it sore?

For me, the only thing is the anaesthetic. With my cerebral palsy, it knocks me around a bit for a couple of days.

It’s amazing what the medical world is able to discover, though, that can aid you. Because if you weren’t having the Botox, there presumably would be quite a different outcome and life experience for you.

Oh, my life would be so much different.

I wonder what came first. Was Botox a beauty product before it became a medical product, or a medical product before it became a beauty product?

I don’t know.

It’s such a broad spectrum of what things are used for.

00:15:34

You don’t expect it to be…

Something to help you with your condition, and what it clearly does, which is something that you naturally associate with beauty is clearly having such a positive impact on your life and how you’re able to go about your day is just amazing. It’s incredible.

So, you’ve described some of the outward effects of your cerebral palsy with your shaking and your voice. Has your cerebral palsy had an effect, like what impact does it have on your education and your social connection?

So, I’m homeschooled. I was socially excluded at school for having aa disability. So, even though at home I have a great education, I find it hard to use a laptop. And I think more the social side, because if people see me shake, they walk off, they don’t want to know me.

So, you were in a mainstream school, right?

Yes.

And has that always been your experience? Do you remember when you were… Obviously, I don’t know what our earliest memories are, but in reception, for example, do you remember what it was like then? Did children’s attitudes towards you and their discrimination, did it increase over time, or was it always like that?

Obviously, it increased over time. One of my memories was, I had a birthday party, and I invited friends. The week after, one of my best friends had a birthday party, and I never got invited. And the invitations were given out in front of me to…

00:17:38

Oh, my.

That must be really tough.

I can feel the tears coming.

I told you she’d cry over anything.

You can come to my party.

If you’d shown her a picture of a cat, she would’ve been crying about ten minutes ago. That’s the thing. So, how do you interact with your friends now? Do you stay online? Do you meet them?

What friends?

Oh, really?

No, I’ve got a lot of adult friends, mainly my mum’s friends. But at the end of the day, I’m happy with who I’ve got.

You have to be, whatever your relationship is, whether it’s friendships or a partner, you have to feel secure in that environment. So, it doesn’t matter if they’re the same age as you, the same colour as you, have the same hair colour as you, you have to feel secure with them. So, that’s really important.

00:18:35

Yes, I completely agree.

Even in a work environment, we have such a supportive relationship between our colleagues. That makes that a good work environment. Not everybody has that. In all walks of life, there are people who are just not very nice. So, seeking out your people is really important. But Mum said that you are hoping to get back into education.

Yes, I’m hoping to get back into education. We won’t even get on the topic of the local authorities, because they’re a waste of time.

Well, that was why I wanted to ask you. So, how do you feel that your school experience could’ve been improved?

I just think, obviously, you’re entitled to a certain amount of support at school, and you should receive support, and I think my life would be so much different. Like when I was at school, we couldn’t even get Wi-Fi on my laptop, and then the simplest thing would’ve made doing my work so much easier.

So, they weren’t giving you the tools to succeed, or to even be included?

No. They left me in cooking class cutting an onion up, and I sliced all my fingers open.

Oh, my goodness. That’s a safeguarding issue right there, as well as many other things. Sorry, Paul, I keep jumping in.

00:20:18

So, you’re homeschooled by your mum or your dad?

No, no.

Neither? Are you homeschooled by a tutor?

Everyone’s laughing here.

A tutor.

I was going to say, if it’s by your mum, what’s your favourite lesson? But it’s not by your mum, so by your tutor. So, what is your favourite subject at school?

Well, I’m only doing Maths and English for GCSEs, but we do mix in art, baking. I like everything, really. I really like my tutor. She’s lovely. She knows if I’m having a bad day, she’s like, oh, come on, let’s go for a walk.

And I can imagine you probably interject quite a bit of humour into your English essays, I guess. I guess some of your English essays may be a little bit edgy with your sense of humour. Is that fair?

Yes.

Okay, that’s good.

00:21:11

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So, you’ve become a disability advocate, and you’ve been doing that in a number of ways. So, your comedy, of course. Your social media profile. You’ve got some great videos out there, and you also have been doing presentations in schools. Is it between 20 to 30 presentations you’ve done?

Yes.

So, can you tell us about that, why you do it, and how it’s received?

So, when I went to school, I can never remember having a lesson about disabilities, a positive lesion about disabilities. It was more talking about disabilities, focusing so much on one disability. All the rest of them gets fished up. See, I made the PowerPoint, and it’s more about being different is okay. So, we’re not just about disabilities. And then my favourite part is at the end. I get them all dancing and singing the song, This is Me.

Oh, brilliant. Oh, that is from The Greatest Showman?

Yes.

Perfect, that’s lovely.

And how long is the presentation?

40 minutes

40 minutes?

00:22:40

Yes.

And what age range are you presenting to in schools?

Well, I do primary schools. I say to the school, I can either do the whole school, or personally I find Year 2 to Year 4 the right age.

Because they’re able to take something from it, and it’s new to them, as well.

Yes.

And also, I guess they’re quite happy to get involved in the dancing at the end.

Yes.

And you’re famous on TV, which I’m doesn’t hurt.

I think that’s amazing, though, that you’ve put your experiences together to support the wider community to create more of an inclusive society.

Yes.

00:23:30

One of the things the Sunflower is aiming to do is to normalise disability in society. We’ve worked so hard just being able to give people the ability to show that they have a hidden disability by wearing a sunflower. And by doing that, our hope is, and we don’t confess that we’re anywhere near being there, is that we create that culture within a society where disability is just normal, it’s seen everywhere, and it’s accepted.

And I think it’s very similar to what you’re saying right there, is just those very, very small steps that you have to take. And if you start it early enough, hopefully that person will take that all the way through their life, and it will normalise disability.

It’s really important to start it at a young age.

I think you’re right.

Yes, education.

Yes.

And like you say, the range of disabilities, and that it’s, as you say, normalising, it doesn’t mean you can’t have a great life. They were talking in that panel earlier on about often when you see disability in the media, it can be seen as pity porn, as opposed to this is life.

This is life. This is how life is. This is how people live.

I’m an actor, I’m an actress, and I’m here because I’m a good actor, not because I’m…

It’s so important, and it’s great to see an expo, to see everybody with the same thought get together, and slowly we are making a change.

00:25:04

Yes, you’re a changemaker. So, on your social media channel, I’m sorry everybody at home if you can’t hear… You can’t hear, okay. I cannot actually concentrate, it’s so loud in the background. On your social media channel, do you know your audience? Are they young people, are they old? Do you know, have you got a vibe for who’s digesting your content?

Yes, so, on my Instagram, I find I’ve got a couple of people from primary schools who I’ve obviously talked to. And more people about 17 to 30, I would say, that gap. My Facebook, it’s my grandparents, and I have to post to keep them happy.

So, it’s all pictures of you in a nice location or a nice environment? Everything the grandparents would enjoy, right?

Yes, but on my Instagram…

You can be a little bit more you. Is that it?

Yes.

How many people do you have following you on social media?

Over 20K.

Wow, do you? Check you out.

See, I used to do TikTok. I have 70K on my TikTok. But I find that such a negative side to TikTok, that I don’t put anything on it.

00:26:41

That’s why I wanted to ask you, so, do you read the comments that you received back, or for mental health? Do you put your content out there, but not look at the comments? How do you manage that?

I kind of have to look at comments, because that’s where I get gigs from, like people who’re asking me to do stuff, and if I don’t read my comments, I wouldn’t be able to do most of them. But I have received not nasty, but pictures and stuff online…

Oh, inappropriate?

Yes. But once you see it, it can’t be unseen. So, not that it upsets me. It’s just something rather not see.

I just don’t know what goes through the mind of people that send content like that.

I’ve had people on my Instagram think I’m older than I am, even though it’s still not okay, they would normally reply with, oh, I thought you were an adult, and I find that really tricky.

It’s one of the dangers, isn’t it? I think young girls, women can look a lot older than what they are.

Even though I’ve got it in massive capitals on my bio, I’m 15 years old…

So, there’s not really an excuse for that behaviour. It’s no excuse for that behaviour, anyway, no matter how old you are. So, you mentioned, then, that you get gigs. So, you gig around the area that you live?

00:28:27

Yes, I like thinking a bit charity based.

So, what sort of locations do you gig at? Is that at local schools, or local halls? Where do you gig?

Anywhere and everywhere, really.

So, wherever that will take you, you’ll stay in that, then, and give everybody your content.

What’s the average time, length of one of your performances? Because it must be so difficult.

I keep it to 20 minutes.

20 minutes?

Yes.

And how do you come up with your material, Eva?

I have comedy lessons.

Do you?

00:29:08

From your dad?

No.

Definitely not.

No. I don’t know if you’re heard of Doreen Tipton.

No, I haven’t.

I found it. It’s a really famous character. Well, her scriptwriter is called David Tristam, and he helps me so much. We’re actually writing my autobiography at the moment.

So, you’re ahead here. 15 years old, and your autobiography is on its way. Check out her Instagram so you can buy it when it’s published.

Hopefully December.

It’s being published in December. Okay, everybody, that’s on our Christmas list, Eva’s autobiography.

And what do you want to say at the moment, what kind of things you’re going to delve into, or are you keeping that as a surprise for the publication?

There’s a lot of things people don’t realise. They see me on stage, happy, good, which I am, but they don’t see I struggled with mental health, and I want to get the word out that it’s not all lally-dally.

00:30:29

It’s really important to do that. Your mental health is a non-visible disability. No one can see inside your mind, your heart, and how you’re feeling, and we shouldn’t be so brash and just think that everything’s okay. When you’re smiling on the outside, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re smiling on the inside.

It’s been a hard couple of months.

And because you come over as so confident and eloquent in the way that you speak, naturally think, well, she’s fine, and she’s great, and she’s doing very well.

And you don’t get the help that you need.

Well, thank you for sharing that and what comes in your book in December, because that’s going to be so helpful to so many other young people to actually, first of all, if they’re experiencing those feelings, that it’s good to talk about it, it’s helpful, it’s a form of therapy, it’s cathartic. Don’t suppress it. Have somebody that you can share your feelings and emotions with. And for other people who might not have thought about how their actions impact on others, that would also give them food for thought.

The podcast that Chantal has been doing, for me, it’s that lived experienced that’s so important to us as an organisation, to hear that lived experience. Because you can really then get into the mind, but you can hopefully maybe walk in that person’s shoes just for a really briefest moment, just to feel what they’re experiencing, maybe the barriers that society places in front of them. So, to have something written down about that lived experience, I think, is going to be hugely valuable. So, I’m going to buy it. You’re going to get one sale, Eva. Definitely one sale

00:32:14

One sale. We’ve got one sale, ka-ching.

Thank you.

What were you doing for CBBC? Can you tell us a bit about that?

So, I had an amazing opportunity after Britain’s Got Talent to have a documentary.

So, it’s all about you?

It’s about my life, and I’ve run up to a charity cause. So, I raised £15,000 for Birmingham Children’s Hospital.

I’m going to start crying again. I can feel it coming.

It’s that picture of the cats again.

They helped me so much. They do all my Botox, and that. I wanted to give something back to say thank you.

Have you spent a lot of your life in that hospital with those staff?

Yes, so I had to go there for my treatment, and everybody’s so nice there. I hate getting older now, because I know soon I’m going to go to the adult ward, and I can’t go there anymore.

00:33:23

Oh.

As you’ve raised so much money, I’m sure you’ll be welcome. You’ll always be welcome.

And sorry, £15,000, and at the time when you were organising that, you were 14. I mean, a ball is such an adult arena.

I couldn’t have done it without my mum and dad.

And did you perform at the ball?

So, I performed, and I was hosting it, and some of my Britain’s Got Talent friends came along and helped.

Such as who? Who came along and helped you?

Tom Ball, then there was Jamie and Chuck, and the Lost Voice Guy.

Wow, so it was a real celebrity event, then.

We had the live video call from Ant and Dec.

Oh, wow.

00:34:14

No way.

That’s good.

That’s cool.

And it’s really great that you’ve established these relationships within that sphere from a young age. So, as you grow, and your career develops as a comedian… You are a professional comedian now, right? Is that what you…?

I don’t like to call myself a comedian.

Oh, okay. Sorry. Okay, so, how would you describe what you do?

I’m just Eva.

Just Eva?

Yes.

What’s the name of the documentary?

It’s My Life - Eva’s Having a Ball.

And can we watch that now?

Yes, it’s on CBBC iPlayer.

00:34:54

Okay, so, we will share some links to that.

Oh, thank you so much.

Definitely. How exciting. And how did it go at the awards event the other night?

We didn’t win, but it was an amazing night with the most incredible people. The food was lovely.

Really nice experience.

Yes.

It’s not about the winning, is it?

No.

But well done for doing it. And how long did it take to record a documentary? Sorry, I just want to quickly ask that.

A good six months. It was only half an hour.

I always think that, when you watch these programmes, how much content they must have to get to do that.

Yes, there was loads of things filmed that didn’t make it in the documentary.

00:35:43

So, there could be a version number two. There could be a second part of the series coming out.

Maybe one coming out on YouTube.

Cool.

Maybe.

So, I know that we’re running out of time, and I could really chat to you for a lot longer. So, I wanted to ask you, I know you wear the Sunflower… Sorry, did you want to ask Eva about the Sunflower? I’m getting over-excited, go on.

That’s okay. I just mind if you start crying again, Chantal, really.

Got my tissue.

So, we know you wear the Sunflower, and we know that we’ve seen you out wearing the Sunflower. How do you feel the Sunflower supports you, and how do you feel the Sunflower supports people with non-visible disabilities?

I think it’s amazing. Like you wear it in Aldi, you go do your shopping, then they’re chucking your bread and milk at you, and you wear one, they understand the need to slow down. Airports are brilliant. Trying to get on an aeroplane I find hard. So, for me, I find people give the extra time I need.

Excellent. Well, that’s what we designed the Sunflower for, Eva, exactly that. Well, I have one last question, and this is the most important question of the podcast. Would you tell me your favourite joke?

00:37:02

I think you’ve got to wait for one of my shows.

Okay, good answer.

Buy a ticket.

That is definitely an answer from a star, so well done, you.

Well, let me ask you a final question. Do you have any advice for a young person who has a disability, who feels socially excluded?

Just talk to someone, an adult, someone you trust. Don’t bottle it up, because that’s not going to do you any favours in the long run. And I don’t want to say you will make friends, but I’m going to say you will be happy. You will find a point you’re happy.

Yes, and just don’t give up.

Yes, definitely.

Well, Eva, thanks so much for giving us your time. I know that you’ve been extremely busy since you’ve been here over the last two days.

Thank you for having me.

00:38:01

This has been the most favourite 45 minutes of my two days at Disability Expo.

Oh, thank you.

So, thank you so much for joining us, Eva.

Yes, thank you very much. So, if you want to find Eva, you can check her out on Instagram. And your handle is?

@eva_abley.

Okay, and if you want to find out more about the Sunflower, what we can do in this podcast, this is The Sunflower Conversations podcast, and our website is hdsunflower.com. Thanks for listening. Thank you, Eva.

Thank you.

Thank you, Paul.

Thank you, Chantal.

If you are interested in any of the advice discussed in this podcast, please follow up with your GP or healthcare practitioner. If you have enjoyed this conversation, please hit subscribe to The Sunflower Conversations podcast.

If you’d like to share your Sunflower story or conversation, please email conversations@hiddendisabilitiesstore.com. Find out more about us, or listen to this recording again, by checking out our insights page at hiddendisabilitiesstore.com. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and LinkedIn. Please help, have patience, and show kindness to others, and join us again soon, making the invisible visible with the Hidden Disability Sunflower.

00:39:37

The Sunflower Conversations

Cerebral Palsy with Eva Abley

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